Comments on: UP Elections: The persistence of caste

By: rmathews

rmathews — Fri, 18 May 2007 17:07:26 +0000

I agree with you Abhishek – You are absolutely spot on when you say that caste is often blamed for govt failures. My nightsoil argument was aimed at Rajeev’s moronic “Caste is a Bell Curve” theory.

My argument is that why should it be codified. If you are intelligent and Hard working in a democratic capitalist society you will be recognised.

The level of effort you put in will automatically determine your status in society. Your future doesn’t need to be set in stone based on who your father is or was

By: abhishek01

abhishek01 — Fri, 18 May 2007 16:36:11 +0000

Of late, inspired by a few successive articles, a couple of ‘lords of the nightsoil’ have sprung up in the media.

It is quite common these days to link the wretchedness of every individual to caste. The underlying assumptions are that firts, there is no upper caste living in wretched conditions, and second, it is not the corrupt and criminally negligent government departments responsible for this – it is upper castes and the most evil of them -brahmins.

A few weeks back I was reading about how there are still nightsoil carriers in the railways. This department has had reservations for ages now, at all levels, to the tune of half of its workforce, and so many high ranking officials from SC/ST/OBC but the limits of their laziness is such that they have done absolutely nothing for the lot of these people. And still casteim/ upper castes are responsible!

To improve the lot of everyone is a tough job. Blaming castesim for our combined failure in all departments of governenace and civility is not going to serve any purpose.

By: rmathews

rmathews — Wed, 16 May 2007 18:38:28 +0000

Rajeev – isn’t it obvious from quality of comments that you’re “supporters” leave both in Rediff and on this site that the whole Bell Curve theory is utter nonsense.

Its pretty obvious that the vast majority of you’re supporters are from the so called Upper Castes

See the example of “Rational”, “Educated” and “Intelligent” thought above – Not one meaningful, well thought out, reasoned argument.

Do you take classes for these people? Because they sure sound like they’ve learnt from a master

By: dhara

dhara — Tue, 15 May 2007 07:49:01 +0000

Few in India would dare to talk against arrogant editors, and what goes behind imposing various political correct ideas. Thanks for the small favours in posting the unedited article. for rediff, all are not empowered to talk against an woman politician even if she throws tantrums.

By: dhara

dhara — Tue, 15 May 2007 07:45:25 +0000

While the european colonists have covered their base in night soil argument ( they have killed thousand times more humans in europ only, forget about the animals they slaughter), the humble article by Rajeev is a good one to make some people rethink about their campaign against the Jews.

By: dhara

dhara — Tue, 15 May 2007 07:43:14 +0000

The Jati and Varna is about creating magnificient and granduer civillization, that can inspire certain voltire of europe even when under serious attack.

People think it is about nigh soils, about racial wars as they do in europe, about slaughters, conversion, progress and so on.

Mathews picked on one such idea, where as it was an uncoomon thing for many to use toilets at the start of century, unless one stayed in cities( less than 5%) of population. People engaged for carrying night soil would be 0.00001% of the population, and we agree that they were not engaged in philosophy or trade.

Why people go to that insignificant number, when avoiding bigger slauthers by imperial cults ? What they hide ?

By: rmathews

rmathews — Mon, 14 May 2007 16:42:02 +0000

But jati and varnam are merely a codification of the fact that all humans are not born equal in their endowments: some are tall, some are fat, some are musically talented, and so on. Caste is about the ruthless Bell Curve, and is about as inescapable as race. It is neither good nor bad; it just is (casteism, however, is reprehensible, just as racism is.)
=========================
Codification of fact? And why should these “facts” be codified? Are you saying that the offspring of a night soil worker are only capable of carrying nightsoil? I thought capitalism and democracy helped ensure that those of a higher calibre were most successful. Why do we need this to be codified other than to preserve the status quo?

I see you have covered your bases well by saying that “casteism” is reprehensible – Its pretty clear from what you’ve written that that is definitely NOT what you’re thinking

Have you done a survey among various jatis to find out exactly what their social mobility needs are? How do you know they are not looking to go anywhere?

The argument about the communist elite is as most of your arguments and “facts” are pretty ludicrous

Maybe you haven’t been living in the 21st Century – Facts as you call them need to be independently corroborated

Rajeev – once again you have made an art out of making inane arguments and citing non existent facts

Its pretty clear from your article which end of the Bell Curve you’re on

I’m an atheist but I suppose only God can help us if you are as you claim to be an alumni of one of the IIT’s – Please lets bring on reservation