Nandigram: Communism as fascism

March 26, 2007

Part I has been posted at rediff.

My objective here is to show that Nandigram is only a small symptom of the destructiveness of Communists who are arguably the worst human-rights violators in history, with the possible exceptions of the Christian and Mohammedan imperialists. Communists are the fascists par excellence.

Intriguingly, Communism is eerily identical to the established Christian entities.

Vatican = Soviets

Protestants = Chinese

Reformation = the schism between the Soviets and the Chinese

Paul = Engels

Christ = Marx

Pope = Mao

Early Martyrs = Che Guevara et al

Missionaries = Marxists

Bible = Das Kapital + Mao’s Red Book

Baptists, Pentecostals, Methodists, etc. = Marxists, Maoists, Shining Path, Khmer Rouge

I am sure you can think of many more exact analogies.

There are Communists of many stripes, who profess various differences — but their internal ideological battles are roughly as immaterial as the minor doctrinal differences between the various splinter Christian cults.

Their common factor is that they destroy people and lands that they take over.

Part 1 — Rajeev Srinivasan on why the common man doesn’t matter to Communists

 

There is nothing in the way the Communists of West Bengal conducted themselves at Nandigram that should have amazed anybody. There have been enough instances of Communists demonstrating that despite all their pious propaganda about the rights of the common man, in practice Communism is mostly about self-aggrandizement and the growth of the State at the expense of the populace.

 

 

Nandigram: Communism as fascism – Part II

Rajeev Srinivasan on why the common man doesn’t matter to Communists

 

There were a couple of things the Rediff people edited out, so here’s what I said originally vs. their edited version. They are careful to edit out certain things, and I find their edits are not unreasonable :-)

original: The Jallianwallah Bagh parallel is obvious: just as agents of a foreign power (Britain) used Indian soldiers to shoot down Indian civilians without mercy, here people who are in effect agents of a foreign power (China) used Indian policemen to shoot down Indian civilians without mercy.

edited: The Jallianwallah Bagh parallel is obvious.

original: A famous comrade woman, who was captured on film after the hijacking of Indian Airlines flight chivvying on the families of the hostages to force the Center to capitulate, was seen after Nandigram forcefully asserting the State’s “right” to kill people!

edited: they dropped “woman” :-)

original: Which leads the impartial observer to conclude that crony capitalism and Communism go hand-in-hand, and that the comrades have no compunctions about getting their snouts in the pork-barrel of baksheesh from the allegedly hated capitalists. Every rogue has his price, clearly.

edited: Which leads the impartial observer to conclude that crony capitalism and Communism go hand-in-hand.

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30 Responses to “Nandigram: Communism as fascism”

  1. Nita Says:

    I agree with you when you say that communism does not keep the interests of the common man in mind. That is simply rhetoric. Throughout history and in fact the living examples of communist states prove this.
    I have lived in Bengal for four years and the common people there (shop keepers, taxi drivers etc) have told me time and again that people are intimidated into voting for the communists. There is no mandate from the people. I know intimidation happens everywhere but it is maximum in communists states. Communists states are repressive, that is the worst thing about them. So as you said, Nandigram fits in.
    However, I am curious about Kerala. I have never lived there and therefore do not have a feel of what is happening there. I wonder if you know whether the govt. of Kerala has a mandate from the people?

  2. mitami Says:

    I agree fully with your comments about communist rulers.
    However, there is a special feature in Bengal which may not be known so well outside the state. The ruling party is not quite homogeneous here. There are different levels, numerous committees and corresponding bosses who acquire power from the name of the party but operate more or less independently for their private ends. The central leaders have very little control over the micro level. Some differences do crop up at this level, but it never goes so far as to threaten the overall victory at the polls. The horrors of Nandigram were at least partly due to these local gangs rather than the public figures.

  3. habc Says:

    Hitler was a socialist. As he himself said:

    “We are socialists, we are enemies of today’s capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are all determined to destroy this system under all conditions.” (Speech of May 1, 1927. Quoted by Toland, 1976, p. 306)

    Mussolini was a socialist journalist, a socialist editor, the leader of the Italian Socialist Party, and he was once commended by Lenin himself for his efforts on behalf of Socialism. You can’t get any more Socialist than that.

    Both National Socialism and Italian Fascism were Socialist, and therefore Leftist, movements. Those are the facts.

    Some more quotes by Adolf Hitler
    I have learned a great deal from Marxism, as I do not hesitate to admit. The difference between them and myself is that I have really put into practice what these peddlers and pen-pushers have timidly begun…. I had only to develop logically what Social Democracy repeatedly failed in because of its attempt to realize its evolution within the framework of democracy. National Socialism is what Marxism might have been if it could have broken its absurd and artificial ties with a democratic order. (4. Quoted in Leonard Peikoff, The Ominous Parallels (New York, Stein and Day, 1982), p. 236.)

    There is more that binds us to Bolshevism than separates us from it. There is, above all, genuine revolutionary feeling, which is alive everywhere in Russia…. I have always made allowance for this circumstance, and given orders that former Communists are to be admitted to the party at once. The petit bourgeois Social-Democrat and the trade-union boss will never make a National Socialist, but the Communist always will. (4. Quoted in Leonard Peikoff, The Ominous Parallels (New York, Stein and Day, 1982), p. 236.)

  4. vknblog Says:

    Well, lets wait for the CBI report on Nandigram.

    But the overall commie bashing seems very interesting. Who evicted Khmer Rouge from power? Was it the freedom loving Americans?
    BTW any body count from Indonesia? How many did the ‘commies’ kill there? And how many commies died in the hands of Suharto?

    Its really interesting that you can read the ‘minds’ of Nepali and India commies. :)

    @Nita

    First of all, I really wonder how on earth can this fairy tale of intimidation in Bengal sprout up. It really confuses me – for thirty years not a single solid allegation has been substantiated about the so called ‘communist’ excesses. (Please prove me wrong. I’d be very interested in getting some authentic references on this).

    And don’t we have a secret ballet system?? How can people be intimidated into forced voting inside the polling booth? Even in the recent election, when for the first time in the history of the country the polls in Bengal were held in six phases, its the left who won.

    If you are right, I’ll have to correct my ideas about Bengalis and assume that they are all scared to death. The same Bengalis who ignited the revolutionary activities during the freedom struggle. Can they be so sheeplike?

    Then about Kerala, the left is the most democratic force in place. Yes, there are small aberrations which are there, but the left have always taken corrective action.

    @mitami

    Well, thats how a democratic setup is supposed to work. Can’t agree with you when you say that the local level works like goondas, and central leaders utilize them for personal benefit. Can you show me one serious corruption or misuse of power case relating to the left leadership?
    And any of you – can you enlighten me on how many left supporters were killed in Nandigram before police entered there?

  5. mitami Says:

    Poll rigging is done with the help of the lower level workers organized by their local chiefs.

  6. abhishek01 Says:

    Communists have killed all industry in Bengal with their militant, populist socialism. They broke the back of WB economy. Pay a visit to Calcutta- it is their living showpiece of criminal maladministration. You have to live there to know that it is in coma. I don’t know where the money given to state is going, but it is certainly not going to the people.

    Bengali leaders know that no one gives a rat’s about their foolish grandstanding anymore. The world moved on, while they were digging their own graves.

    Now that the guys see they are nowhere, the currency of populist socialism has lost its value, and no incremental power and money can be sucked out of it, they are trying to woo the industry, and getting rich in return.

    That is fine, if it industrializes the state, but on a national level these hypocrites sing the opposite song and leave no stone unturned to scuttle growth and investment.

    Why do Bengalis willingly elect them? Why do Bengalis- who produced great nationalists- vote for a party that sided with China when it attacked India, why do they support a party even though it has kept them in abject poverty for decades, a party that is filling the state with Bangladeshis, why the Durga worshipping Bengalis elect a party that is stridently anti-Hindu? Why don’t they give anyone else a chance?

    I am sure people can be as delusional, inept and dense as individuals- otherwise there would not be such a drastic difference among states and nations. Partly this is because of the vicious cycle of illiteracy and poverty.

    Maybe after a few years they will wake up from their reverie like the people of Bihar, and vote for someone to drag them out of the pit.

  7. vknblog Says:

    @mitami

    Are you saying that even in the last elections there was massive rigging? Even when forces were brought in from other states and polls held in six phases?

    @abhishek
    Can you give me one left leader’s name who got rich by abusing his/her power and position?
    And dont mention illiteracy – Kerala leads. And is a left stronghold too.

    And why is it that all of you are neglecting land reforms in Bengal? Which other state has done it so well?
    It seems pretty simple to me – the people still have gratitude to the party which gave them their justful right to land.

    Its easy to call all this mass delusion. Gives you kind of a satisfaction to find the answer to the unexplicable.

  8. abhishek01 Says:

    Dear vkn..

    I dont carry rosters with me as to who is corrupt and by how much..but if rabid mob-rule, unindustrialization and poverty are not enough proofs to you that the government is deeply corrupt, then no amount of name- calling will convince you

    I said illiteracy is partly the reason. There may be others. But communism has ruined every country till the people kicked it out, and I am sure there were hordes of ‘honest’ and ‘unimpeachable’ leaders in those governments as well, and no tongue dared wag against their greatness.

    I dont suppose it is a good idea to wait for a scandal to break out against a great commie leader when you are left nodding your head in disbelief saying ‘you too..’, while their anti-people deeds are screaming in your face. This approach comes from a death of feeling towards the country, for which no cure is available.

  9. vknblog Says:

    @abhishek

    Let me remind you that in none of the countries where communists were ousted, they had free elections. And if you talk about industrialization, show me one post-communist economy which is in good shape.

    I have never heard of any instance of violent mobs ruling Bengal. Gujarat may be a good example for that.
    Lakhs of people taking to the streets in protest or a show of solidarity might be a common scene in Bengal, as it is in Kerala, but how does that become mob-rule? By that definition democracy itself is mob rule :)
    I’ve talked to people who participate in such rallies. They are there because they know why they have to be there. They don’t spread hatred atleast.

    And the ‘death of feeling towards my country’ – I do care for every single human being on planet earth and I know that. If you opt to follow ultra nationalist warmongers who divide the country in the name of religion, race and ‘son of soil’ kind of chauvinism – you are harming your country. Need proof? Just learn history. And use tangible evidence – not preconceived notions.

    Just wondering about one thing – agriculture has been forging ahead in Bengal right from the eighties. (http://www.ncap.res.in/upload_files/policy_brief/pb8.pdf)
    How did this happen? Slavish bengalis sowing and reaping for commie demi-gods?
    Anybody want to debate that? Have the courage to talk about land reforms?

  10. habc Says:

    vknblog

    “I have never heard of any instance of violent mobs ruling Bengal.”

    This is a joke – right. Bengal is very famous for the mob mentality of its people. Most Bengalis outside Bengal in North India brag about how there is great respect for women in Bengal – they claim that anyone displaying bad behaviour towards women will get lynched immediately – is that mob mentality or not?

    “agriculture has been forging ahead in Bengal right from the eighties.”
    That is so good to know – just concentrate on agriculture – the rest of us will handle all the advanced industries etc.

    In Nepal the Maoists took over and the Indian and Bengal commies claimed that those Maoists were PATRIOTS and fighters for the rights of the common people. In Nandigram the same commies claim that the Maoists incited the people and the Maoists are responsible for the “terrorist” violence. Wah Re Wah – Nadia Comaneci got 10/10 for gymnastics, you commies should get 11/10 for mental gymnastics.

    Communists have no respect for private property. They think that the state or country they rule over is their “personal jagir”. The much touted land reforms were a land grab, exactly as the Nandigram SEZ land grab – the only difference is the people who were at the receiving end.

    “And if you talk about industrialization, show me one post-communist economy which is in good shape.”
    The Czech Republic. – Next question.

    “Who evicted Khmer Rouge from power? Was it the freedom loving Americans?”
    It is so nice to know that Pol Pot was a card carrying member of the Ayn Rand institute – oops. – it was commies (vietnamese) versus maoists just like let me see Nandigram?

    Please google on the words – scientific rigging bengal

    Now that I answered your questions – anything you have to say about my previous post where Hitler openly expresses his admiration and imitation of Bolsheviks/Marxists – go ahead reread my post above.

  11. abhishek01 Says:

    Dear vkn

    I don’t support any group right, left, centre or underground, nor am I drum-beater of any party or government or crass ideology. All I would like to see is people living with dignity.

    I think that any government that has failed, that is not relentless in taking the people it is supposed to serve to greater heights of progress, needs to be kicked out.

    I know enough history, probably a few lessons in history as to how a once thriving industry in Calcutta was brutally finished off in the name of militant ideologies, won’t harm you.

    The trouble with WB govt is aside from ill-governance,- where it is on same footing with many others-its leaders feels bound by an ideology to behave in an anti-Indian , confusing and stupefying manner. Anyone that makes common sense subservient to fossilized ideologies will fail, always and forever.

    Communism is dead. It feeds on poverty. No country developed with it. Even China got rid of its corroding effect. We don’t need useless ideologies; we need solutions to our huge problems. Further, a party that supports India’s enemies is a vermin, and it is on account of such vermins that India is weakening. There are others, but communists are certainly in that group.

    People don’t need to be grateful to governments. It is their right to get their due. There is no end to self-congratulation on mediocre, initial or periodic achievements. The point is not to wallow in eternal gratitude, but to ask – ‘what next?’ anyways, I guess by killing people and raping women in Nandigram, people of the state have been paid back in full.

    I guess there is a lot of difference in our opinions on what constitutes good performance. I know the state of WB, and I think it is an utter failure, considering what it could have been. If you think it is a success, do so.

  12. vknblog Says:

    @abhishek
    >> people living with dignity
    Well, what can I say . What about the dignity of those who were killed in Nandigram before the police entered there. I am not saying that those who died in police firing deserved it. It was horrible and shouldn’t have happened. But I really can’t understand why you miss the political undercurrents here. Why were everyone silent when people were killed months back in Nandigram? Aren’t the left supporters living in camps? Do they deserve that? Is that life with dignity?

    I would better tell you something – from my own experience – in Kerala too we have certain amount of militant trade-unionism. This has scared industries. But on the other side – the wages for manual labour in Kerala is amongst the highest in the country. This has given lakhs of people a chance to fund their children’s education and come out of abject poverty.
    Of course it hurts employers – they will have to buy a Maruti instead of a Benz.
    So it all depends on your perspective. You believe everyone riding a Benz is progress – you feel that all leftist policies are wrong. Or if you think we need to put all kids in the country in school and pay decent wages to manual labour – leftist policies are progressive.

    Even common sense is a sloppy word – do you make sure that your sense doesn’t reflect the ‘common’ sense of a particular class of the society? Do you atleast try to analyse arguments from all sides?

  13. vknblog Says:

    @ habc
    >> This is a joke – right.
    Not at all. I was not talking about how people handle grope-rs. The same happens to anyone indulging into it anywhere in India.
    Couldn’t you find a better example for political mob violence? Give me one which took place in Bengal.

    >> the rest of us will handle all the advanced industries etc
    Well, haven’t the left themselves admitted that there is a need for urgent industrialization in Bengal? And your industrial growth happens only post 90s, and Bengal’s agri growth kept apace both in 80s and 90s. Anything to learn from that?
    BTW don’t you see the farmer distress all over the country even when industry is chugging ahead? So dont tell me that building factories alone will solve all problems. We have to take care of the agrarian economy too.
    >> mental gymnastics
    No, I demand 12 out of 10. How can you compare Nepal with India? Was it only the maoists who ousted the king in Nepal? Note how Indian Maoists have opposed Nepali Maoist’s move to participate in the democracy. Now, as the Nepali Maoists have accepted the role of democracy what do you have to say about them?
    And let me repeat, what about the left supporters who were killed before police entered Nadigram?

    >>private property
    Thats a classic problem. Highly theoretical. But I can accuse non-commies to be anti-people in the same breath – as they care only for their selfish needs.

  14. vknblog Says:

    @habc
    >> land reforms were a land grab
    Haa..haa…cool revelation. Yeah, the government grabbed some land. And who has the land now anyway?
    >> people who were at the receiving end
    Another one. The ‘people’ didn’t deserve that. And when they got it, they took Bengal to the top of agricultural productivity. What a shame! What a shame on India’s growth story!!

    >>The Czech Republic
    Cool. I thought someone would pick Russia, since all the big talks about BRIC economies are going on.
    Since you picked Czech – there was another great ‘grab’ which happened there. When they privatized state owned companies, they gave shares to the public!
    Now give an economy peace and stability and it will grow over time. How did all post communist economies perform in the decade after the fall of communism. Some gained wealth, but how many suffered? Any data on this?
    Dont accuse me of being a gymnast here. I am not receding from my stand that post-communist economies suffered a hell lot. Yes, they are bouncing back. But the time has taken its toll. Look at the way their social indicators have decayed after the collapse of the welfare state. Shock treatments have never worked.
    >> Pol Pot
    Funny. You are claiming that all demons including Hitler, Mussolini were communists!
    Let me remind you – you can be stamped insane even by anti-communists for this. Dont just quote Peikoff. Objectivism is a cool theory and will ever remain so.
    And you look like an avid follower.
    Anyway if tomorrow Bin Laden claim to be a communist – I think you will be the first one to say ‘I said so’ :)

  15. vknblog Says:

    @ habc
    >>Please google on the words – scientific rigging bengal
    I did.

    Almost all are anti-left brouhaha and concocted stories. Not a single proven incident. And interestingly, the ones from Hindu provides lot more data to show that the so called ‘scientific rigging’ is just a theory.

    Let me repeat once again – what about the recent elections which were held in six phases, under security forces from other states and one even Mamata Banerjee accepted as fair?

    Thanks for attempting to answer my questions.
    I’d suggest you to read with a wider perspective before quoting from one or two books. Its a well proven fact that the fascists and nazis murdered communists without mercy. If Hitler admired Marx, is it Marx’s fault? :)

  16. vknblog Says:

    @ habc
    Reuslts of google search.
    The top ones are the following.

    http://maradnusro.sulekha.com/blog/post/2005/05/scientific-rigging.htm

  17. abhishek01 Says:

    vkn..

    Do leftist policies declare that ‘Send boys to school first, before worrying about Mercedes Benz’?

    Even George Bush would say that. What is so leftist in it?

    I would rather like a government that says ‘Sending boys to school is my duty not because I subscribe to an ideology, but because this is the first thing I need to do as a servant of the people.’

    For me, the example given by you ironically show the needless ideological warfare I was talking about. You don’t have to pit one against the other because of some ideological guru thought this as the solution in some distant land in some distant time. You don’t scare investors with militancy. You create a system that is just to the industrialist and the worker. If an investor feels discriminated against, he will quit your state and your country. You can fight your great battles punching air.

    An investor won’t run to a place where he can exploit workers because hardly any places exist today, and if they do, they would be bad places to do business in. But if I, not as a Benz driving bigwig but even as a bike-riding small entrepreneur, am made to kow-tow to militant goondas, I will say good luck to you and close my shop or shift it to a less militant place or change my business itself- much like Bombay textile mill owners of 80s.

    That’s the communist line – they create imaginary enemies like industrialists and get the loyalty of people. Imprisonment to this ideology means not only are you already biased while deciding a conflict, you are dragged behind by it even when the problem has been largely solved and the time demands promoting industry and entrepreneurship. What will your school going kid do after he graduates- twiddle his thumbs?

    We can argue till the worlds end as to who made the mistake in Nandigram, which party was at fault in Bombay /Gujarat riots, who made the mistake in Bihar caste massacre. Blame fixing is a strange game. The citizens can keep falling ever deeper in the ditch of depravity and keep blaming each other. If the government were of any use, such incidents would be prevented and mitigated. Everyone has grievances. You will be hard put to find a group in India that does not have any grievances. But if you start pitting one grievance group against the other, you had it.

  18. rajeev2007 Says:

    Nita,
    Kerala is a strange place. Despite Amartya Sen’s theories about the Kerala model, there is really no such thing, as the place is sustained by remittances from migrants. It started off with the export of clerks and nurses to the rest of India, but now the export of nurses to the rest of the world, and skilled and unskilled labor to the Gulf is a world-class operation bringing in billions of dollars. Therefore, the state has not suffered as Bengal has. Therefore, in a sense, who rules is not a life and death situation as it may well be in Bengal.

    The two candidates are the Congress and the Communists. Each of them is abominable in different ways: the Congress for basically being a Christian fiefdom, the Communists for destroying all hope of industrial development; and both of them for having decimated the agricultural sector. But it doesn’t matter so much since remittances are so high.

    Since hope springs eternal, as soon as the electorate gets sick and tired of one bunch they vote in the others, hoping that THIS TIME they will be better than before. Which of course does not happen.

    But there are quite a few armchair Communists who now run quite a lucrative set of businesses: a) protection rackets, b) media empires, c) land mafia, d) licensing rackets, e) corruption empires. Very very lucrative indeed. They have amassed a billion-dollar empire in Kerala.

    The average Malayali unlike the average Bengali is quite cunning. So the Communists know that they cannot push beyond a certain level, because then they will lose their vote banks. So they keep a level of Communism-lite going in Kerala, which is barely tolerable, and not noticeably worse than the Congress-church mafia.

  19. Nita Says:

    Thanks Rajiv for the info on Kerala. But I don’t know how long Kerala can depend on NRI money. Jobs over there are dwindling.
    Regarding the discussion on communism I have this to say:
    One has to wonder why only communist states keep getting the same govt every time. The reason is simple. Intimidation, bribing. The communists are incredibly good at this.
    Intimidation is a fact of life in elections. I will give you the example of my maid. She lives in a slum in Mumbai and that whole slum voted for the Shiv Sena these municipal elections. I asked her why. She said they got money, they got gifts, even chicken soup was distributed! Rs 500/- each she said. And those guys who went around collecting votes from other places, were given brand new motor cycles and lakhs of rupees. Its naive to think that these people who promise to vote enter a booth and vote for someone else! They don’t. My maid didn’t. Her family didn’t. Her whole elaka didn’t. They are grateful. The results are there to see.
    I have written about this on my blog.
    And its not only now. The Shiv Sena looks after them. They helped them during the mumbai floods…and other things like these.
    Apparently, this time the congress was so confident about winnnig that they became a bit lax. Not Shiv Sena. They were very organised and very aggressive.
    These poor people who swing the vote understand little of how how corrupt or useless the govt. is and even less about the character of the candidate.
    Unfortunately we only talk of intellectuals and if a few bengali intellectuals say that communism is a good and wonderful thing its of no use. their votes will not swing the result.
    thats what I meant by voters being intimidated in west bengal.

  20. habc Says:

    vknblog,

    Sorry I did not reply earlier as I thought you were not going to respond – so silly of me;)

    “Haa..haa…cool revelation. Yeah, the government grabbed some land. And who has the land now anyway?”
    The people who live in Singur and Nandigram are the people who will tell you the answer to that question.

    “The Czech Republic
    Cool. I thought someone would pick Russia, since all the big talks about BRIC economies are going on.”
    Setting up a straw man argument?
    By the way Hungary is doing pretty well too (remember Austro-Hungarian empire and all that-pretty advanced for its time too) – and in Hungary I do not believe they distributed shares to everyone.

    “Funny. You are claiming that all demons including Hitler, Mussolini were communists!
    Let me remind you – you can be stamped insane even by anti-communists for this. Dont just quote Peikoff. Objectivism is a cool theory and will ever remain so.
    And you look like an avid follower.
    Anyway if tomorrow Bin Laden claim to be a communist – I think you will be the first one to say ‘I said so’”
    Could you show me where I said that Hitler and Mussolini were communists – you are setting up a straw man argument here – totally bogus.
    I said that Hitler and Mussollini were SOCIALISTS.
    Hitler was a National SOCIALIST
    Commies are International SOCIALISTS.
    cut from the same cloth – giving primacy to the state over the individual even in normal times.

    Could you also show me where I have said or indicated that I am an “Objectivist” – you guys cannot argue without slandering or bad mouthing opponents – or is it that your ideologically addled brains are unable to argue with other people as INDIVIDUALS, without assigning them to some ideological category.
    The only reason I meantioned Ayn Rand was to sarcastically criticise you for Pol Pot. I am NOT an objectivist for the record and argue about the points raised not trying to “categorize” the opponent.

    Here is the Wikipedia page for Pol Pot (Yes I know it is Wikipedia – if you want I can provide more links)
    Pol Pot was a COMMUNIST. Trying to deny this is ridiculous.

    “Well, haven’t the left themselves admitted that there is a need for urgent industrialization in Bengal? ”
    The left always takes several decades to admit that they made a mistake – so many historical mistakes – how can anyone tolerate such bumbling nincompoops. Do Bengalis have a different sense of time? How can some group deindustrialise a state which was number 1 a t one time and then say ooops – soooo sorry – now we will reindustrialize – what about all the lives ruined?

    “Couldn’t you find a better example for political mob violence? Give me one which took place in Bengal.”

    href=”http://news.indiainfo.com/publicopinion/anandamarga-justice.html”>Justice weeps silently and furtively

    30th April 1982, is a day smeared with blood. On this day the Bondel Gate and the Bijon Setu area of Kolkata city was stained with the blood of 17 dedicated monks and nuns of Ananda Marga. On that day 17 monks and nuns of Ananda Marga were brutally killed by the cadres of Communist Party of India-Marxists (CPM). That is why the day of 30th April is remembered as “Dadhicii Divas” (Martyr’s Day). Conscientious people of the world had condemned the massacre just immediately after the massacre but the then Chief Minister of West Bengal, Mr Jyoti Basu had not shown even slightest sympathy; he did not go to the spot which is located at five minutes walking distance from his residence. In the so-called democratic State, no criminal related to this heinous massacre got punishment till today.

  21. vknblog Says:

    @habc
    I was just saying that you ‘look like’ an objectivist – reason – You just blindly quote an objectivist and base all your arguments on those words.
    Anyway lets set aside alleged personal abuses.
    And I am leaving the economic topic too.
    Lets focus on politics.

    1) You are desperately trying to prove that commies and Hitler are the two sides of the same coin – or rather they are brothers in arms when it comes to their ideology. Just because both argue for the need for a strong state, how can they be the same? Using this theory I can argue that all patriots are communists – as they place the nation’s interests above an individual’s. Just forget the whole argument. It doesn’t even exist.
    2) PolPot came to power claiming to be a communist. But if he was a real communist he wouldn’t have done what he did. But the Indian communists were always different. The Indian democratic system doesn’t allow anyone to rule over a country just as PolPot did(Yeah, i am not forgetting emeregency, but that wasn’t a creation of commies anyway).
    3) I gave you ten links from the google search you wanted me to do. I have posted them here for anyone’s review. Most of them talk about stories which any third rate journalist can create. And you added one more to them.
    I can create a thousand web-pages like these describing the anti-communist hunts happening all over the world. They won’t make it true.
    BTW the last link you posted talks about AnandMargis – found some authentic reference about them(not the bullshit i found on the posted links).

    http://www.tkb.org/Incident.jsp?incID=2400

    Read it yourself.

    4) If possible try to answer these questions.
    a) The scientific rigging theory – did it happen even in the last elections? No. It didn’t and it pours cold water on all theories of goonda raj.
    b) What about the political murders which took place in Nadigram before police entered the village?
    c) I propose that some miscreants instilled fear on the poor villagers and made them commit crimes, and take control of the village in their own hands. Or else how will you explain the political murders which took place before the police action? How would you explain the failure to hold all party meetings to discuss matters despite the govt’s attempts to do so? How would you explain the fact that all this happened even before any notice for land acquisition was issued?

    As a side note : if possible give me a list of companies which closed down in Bengal in the last twenty years, what type of industries were they, what was their scale, what was the major reason that they closed down etc. No generalizations please. I am asking for specific cases and data. I’ll also try to gather the same.
    Talk to you soon.

  22. vknblog Says:

    @Nita
    As a Keralite i can tell you something – Kerala is no strange place but a very interesting place.
    Yes, we do make money by working in other states and countries, but ahoy-how is that a problem?
    Tell me – how many of our great software companies
    make money from India? Where would the great Indian outsourcing saga without all that foreign money? If Malayalis are getting jobs it is simply because they deserve it. Because they are better educated and have proven their capability.

    I don’t think jobs in Kerala are dwindling – they are on the rise now. Major IT companies are coming in now. Industrial parks are sprouting up.

    And we have serious problems with land and natural resources. Ever taken a trip to Kerala? How much of wasteland or non-agricultural land have you seen? We simply can’t set up giant industrial plants as they will not be sustainable.

    The Kerala model is about social conscience – I know that from innumerable personal experiences.
    Just one – when I was in high school, a student decided to drop out. A rare thing in Kerala. We send almost all our kids to schools(they might not clear high school – but thats another problem). The pressure from the community made his father get him back to school in two days – i am not talking about any religious, casteist or poilitical community here – everyone in the village irrespective of these divisions chided this person for letting his son drop out.
    So, how many places in India have such a social fabric?
    In Bangalore i see so many kids in restaurants,its shocking, and all this despite having an IT company in every nook and corner. How long shall we wait for the benefits to trickle down?

    And not to mention the social indicators from Kerala. It beats me. None of you want to talk about that. We rival even the US and that too with a pittance when it comes to revenues.

    It clearly shows that with people’s participation anything can be achieved. The idea of mob lunacy is simply amazing and i will just laugh it off – for i know that you don’t know what you are talking about.

    And about the intimidation theories – i would suggest you to visit Kerala when an election is going on. Bring a satellite OB van too. See and record what happens.

    Sidenote: Checkout the following link.

    http://www.videothevote.org/

    Can you media persons take up such an initiative in India?

  23. vknblog Says:

    @Rajeev
    I challenge you to give one instance or just one name or just one hint to substantiate the following theory.

    ” But there are quite a few armchair Communists who now run quite a lucrative set of businesses: a) protection rackets, b) media empires, c) land mafia, d) licensing rackets, e) corruption empires. “

  24. vknblog Says:

    @abhishek
    Dude, who is talking about ideology here? Take a look at the actions.
    Land reforms – if every poor farmer can make money from his land, can’t they afford to send their kids to schools? Isn’t that the most logical way to provide relief to a mostly agrarian workforce?

    Now – even after twenty years of economic reforms, why is it that we are having almost no growth on job creation? Yeah, wealth is being created but where are the jobs?
    How many new jobs are being created to compensate the displaced ones?

    I am not talking about ideological warfare. I am not pitting myself against you. Just tell me – what is preventing other political parties from committing to land reforms? Even when everyone knows that it can give an immense boost to the rural poor’s incomes?
    How can you close your eyes towards that simple solution?

    Your belief that growth is possible only through vast and uninterrupted investments is totally wrong. The structure that this model of growth can create is so fragile. Didn’t we have anything to learn from the East Asian economic crisis? I clearly can’t accept the idea that you just bring in investements and everything will work out itself.

    I completely agree with you that we shouldn’t divide oursleves into groups. But if a faction decides to do so and take on matters in their hands, what will you do? And thats why i wanted you to talk about what happened in Nandigram before the police action. Who divided the people in the name of imaginary land acquisition notices? Who scared them in the name of threats to their livelihoods?

  25. vknblog Says:

    All,
    Lets see where things go after an year. All investigation reports will be out. Tata’s Singur factory will be up. WB might get more investors, or none. Indian growth story will continue-but will still leave many kids to starvation, malnutrition and child labour.
    I am setting a reminder in my calendar. Hope you too can do the same.

  26. abhishek01 Says:

    vkn..

    dont call me a dude..

    Who is talking about ideology? You are. Communism is an ideology. I am saying ideologies are useless.

    Even if you are not, lots of communist guys are doing that and they believe in that, so strongly that even if it hurts the country’s interests, they will be loyal to the ideology first.

    Twenty years of half-baked reforms are not enough. We need comprehensive economic and adminstrative reforms, supported by strong investment in human capital. You talk of land reforms as if that is the universal cure of all ills. In practice we need to do a thousand times more if we need to have any semblance of a povertyless society.

    In that direction, the communist governments have done little.You can give random examples from East Asia, America wherever, but when the balance sheet is seen, communist-run states are impoverished and wretched. They can even shine in comparison to some other lame states which have other afflictions- like terrorsim, central neglect, or caste-paranoia, but that does not make them any less decadent.

    Clearly our expectations from governments are different. You see land reforms and are pleased, I see people living a life of disease and filth on the streets of Calcutta and am displeased. And from what I have seen in other parts of the state,it is just symbolic of the rot the whole state is in.

    Kerala maybe better. It is periodically under Congress too. Also, one would like to see where it is without the gulf money. Anyways if communists are good, they should be good everywhere.

    Please dont ascribe imaginary arguments to me and call me ‘totally wrong’. From my point of view you are not only totally, utterly and absolutely wrong but dont even know what you are wrong about. So let us not resort to that kind of imaptient reasoning.

  27. Nita Says:

    vknblog, when i said jobs dwindling, i meant middle east jobs.
    Also, I admire Kerala’s social development greatly. In fact it is my favorite state because I think it is the only state in India where women are truly equal to men. And even the poor are educated. If I was not a Maharashtrian, I would have liked to be born again as a Keralite. :)

  28. jugaljha Says:

    Nandigram is roadmap of movement anti Facist Government
    in west bengal
    Jugal kishore Jha

  29. sarnab2 Says:

    Where were you Mr Rajeev when Indira Gnadhi killed, jailed those innocent people , killed INDIA shamelessly. Today you are writing this article because MEDIA and some useless shameless opposition(TMC..who everyone knows what they are for .) are showing a part of it to you, YOU ARE ONE OF THOSE SHABBY INDIAN who live by the life and dare not to go against the rule, because you have to save your ass by writing an article where you pick up an encylopedia or wikipedia and start comparing, RELIVE those tantalising days when people rose and rose against the ertswhile INDIRA GANDHI rule, and you will know whether communism lives for the people or not…I am really pissed by “EDUCATED” people like you in INDIA…INDIANS WILL RISE AND THEN YOU WILL KNOW ..


  30. […] whats happening now is detrimental to common people…I think we the so called experts “http://rajeev2007.wordpress.com/2007/03/26/nandigram-communism-as-fascism/ “ should leave it to the common people of Nandigram to decide whether Communism is […]


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